Obama, the professor, and the cop

Can the president of the United States ever shutup!!! The lips start moving before the brain engages. Black Harvard professor with a broken headlight is pulled over by a white cop who suspects drinking and driving and arrests him. That alone is going to attract some media attention but Obama just can't keep his face out of the media! Eventually he realized he misfired and invited the cop and the professor over for a beer. The professor said he doesn't drink beer but he will come anyway.

Doesn't Yomama have enough to do in his attempt to force government controlled health care on a country of unwilling citizenry who already enjoy the best health care system in the world?

I hadn't heard anything about a traffic stop incident.

As to the Gates incident, Obama screwed up. No denying it. That said, I will give him props for at least acknowledging that and trying to make amends over a beer. Frankly - what else can he do? Can't say I never said something stupid that I later regretted, and he's handling that as well as any of us would.

I'm not going to crucify him over this one. Who knows, I'm hopeful his mistake might even end in a positive. Because it put in the spotlight that not all racism charges are quite as clear as the accuser makes it out to be.

Clay - although I can agree to a certain extent, I think the fact that he made the comment after saying he doesn't have all the facts was just reckless - pretty much like 90% of this policy decisions so far actually. As POTUS, You don't throw a public servant under the bus when you admit you don't have all the facts. I still haven't heard him say "I'm sorry, I screwed up" straight out.

If there is one thing that is very clear about Obama, he just wants to be able to say he passed legislation on one of his pet subjects. It doesn't matter if it's effective policy or makes sense (See the Stimulus Free legislation that nobody got to read). BO and the Gang are just trying to throw legislation out there regardless of the pork and other amendments that might be attached just so they can say "See, we did what we promised". He's careless, reckless, and more concerned with his legacy than the country. That is painfully obvious.

He did a couple of things... as POTUS he said that he held personal bias and not all the facts and then attacked a local police departments action. Reagan would never had done that. Hell, Clinton wouldn't have either.

And he didn't apologize because it was the right thing to do. It took two days and a lot of heat before he did it. I've heard the audio... the day after his speech he still stood by his words and was upset over the 'flap' of his comments. The White House then defended his comments. Finally after more facts came into play (officer was a racial profiling expert, fellow cops - black and hispanic - were there and agreed, plus the threat of releasing audio tape) did he finally come up with a half-assed appology.

Hell even his appology was shitty. He says, "Because this has been ratcheting up..." Not, because what I said was wrong.

He continues, "I unfortunately gave an impression..." See what he did. He doesn't say he did anything wrong, just that he gave 'an impression'.

And finally, "And I could have calibrated those words differently." It's not about what he believe but how he chooses the words to attack people he disagrees with.

I believe that Obama gave a speech about how words have meaning. Hmmm... except when you are two-faced, political activist, race-baiting, statist.

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This was the moment when we tore down barriers that have divided us for too long - when we rallied people of all parties and ages to a common cause; when we finally gave Americans who’d never participated in politics a reason to stand up and to do so.

This was the moment when we finally beat back the politics of fear, and doubt, and cynicism; the politics where we tear each other down instead of lifting this country up. This was the moment.

Years from now, you’ll look back and you’ll say that this was the moment - this was the place - where America remembered what it means to hope.


Barrack Obama

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Originally Posted by [AK]Clay

I hadn't heard anything about a traffic stop incident.

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Well that's what it was all about!

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Originally Posted by [AK]Clay

As to the Gates incident, Obama screwed up. No denying it.

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That also is what the traffic stop is about!

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Originally Posted by [AK]Clay

That said, I will give him props for at least acknowledging that and trying to make amends over a beer. Frankly - what else can he do? Can't say I never said something stupid that I later regretted, and he's handling that as well as any of us would.

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The last I checked, you are not the president and I am relatively certain that it is not Obama's job to anchor the nightly news and to turn said event into a race baiting commentary from his vantage point in the white house.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Clay

I'm not going to crucify him over this one. Who knows, I'm hopeful his mistake might even end in a positive. Because it put in the spotlight that not all racism charges are quite as clear as the accuser makes it out to be.

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That is why he invited the professor and the cop to the white house for a beer! I didn't know it was required to copy and paste the whole news story. Which one would you prefer? The biased one from the New York Times or the version from the Wall Street Journal?

Hey, if we want medical care we can always go get hit by a bus... am I right?

Moon, you have your facts wrong on Gatesgate. There was no traffic stop. Prof. Gates forced entry into his own home. A neighbor reported a possible burglary. When the police arrived, Gates allegedly declined to provide ID. He then accused the cops of racism whilst otherwise behaving in a belligerent and abusive manner, as black studies professors with mammoth chips on their shoulders are wont to do. Thus, he was arrested.

Read the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

He gave the officer his Harvard ID after being asked a couple times, iirc.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Palooka

Moon, you have your facts wrong on Gatesgate. There was no traffic stop. Prof. Gates forced entry into his own home. A neighbor reported a possible burglary. When the police arrived, Gates allegedly declined to provide ID. He then accused the cops of racism whilst otherwise behaving in a belligerent and abusive manner, as black studies professors with mammoth chips on their shoulders are wont to do. Thus, he was arrested.

Read the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

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examiner.com
Las Vegas

http://www.examiner.com/x-6837-Cultu...-stupid-police

William Elliott Hazelgrove
Culture & Sociology Examiner

Quoting the author and Professor Gates according to the author:

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Originally Posted by Moon

Police are in an uproar. The President called them stupid. Was it stupid for the cop to arrest the black professor from Harvard in his home.? Probably not stupid just more of the same old same old. The police say this officer is stellar. He is fair. Maybe he is. Maybe he is a very good cop. But he went down the same old road of a black man is probably up to no good...even in his own home. This is what the President was saying...this is what the cops can't admit.

"I was pulled over for a broken headlight one night. I told the cop he was wasting his time because it had a short and no matter how many times I fixed the light it went out. He pulled me out of the car and accused me of drinking. He made me take a sobriety test. I was a sober as a judge but I knew that because I was driving an old car in an upscale neighborhood and had dared to talk back that I was at his mercy. He could make a DUI stick to the point where I would be out thousands of dollars. Ok. Was he stupid? No. He just went down the old car and guy who talks back must be a bad guy road."

You look at the cop. He is white and blond and looks like the all American male. Gates looks like an old black guy. These images play heavily in our media. People think...well I would have cuffed him too. Or the policeman looks like a typical fascist cop. Neither assumption is correct. Gates is a professor and the cop is just a policeman doing his job. So where does stupid come in?

Stupid is that the police cant admit that they do make assumptions. That they made the wrong assumption with Gates and that they will probably continue making these wrong assumptions. Stupid is the amount of power the police wield is way out of line with our judicial system founded on the precept that you are innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

But the President cant really say that. He cant' say all cops make these bad judgments because there is a problem with the way police view minorities, poor people, foreigners...or people with old cars and one headlight. The boot of any autocratic power usually begins with grand assumptions. Like all police are stupid. Or all black men are criminals.

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William Hazelgrove writes from Ernest Hemingways attic. His latest book is Rocket Man.

Above are the professor's own words according to the author. So which is it? Was he arrested at home or pulled from his vehicle as he says? There are two different hints within the bounds of this article.

Every leftist net news site including the huffington post pounced on this story soon after it broke possibly in order to muddy up the waters and make us forget for a moment the incessant foot-in-mouth bloviating from the man in the white house. As it were, examiner.net was at the top of my search list for three days solid until the hurricane hit. After that, I couldn't find the site until I modified my search method. End of story...

It could be the author's own experience with the police in the article as he made a vague reference to the prof arrested at home. I avoid the big name left wing newspaper's net news sites as they are obviously biased and will twist everything to their own devious agendas. There are even stories of Obama getting snagged by the secret service for attempting to get through the front door of the white house at night without his key. In the first place, no one is going to get on the white grounds that doesn't belong there. Secondly a president is going to be closely shadowed by the secret service at all times in public. It's doubtful that they quiz him on which door he should or shouldn't go through with or without a key at night. It's their job to protect the pres at all times in a highly respectful manner. Hillary Clinton verbally beat the crap out of them but they took it and remained respectful. They got dirty following Bush around the ranch as he cut the brush in the back 40 but they handled it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/img/...ry_arrest2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Moon

It could be the author's own experience with the police in the article as he made a vague reference to the prof arrested at home.

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The author (not Gates) was clearly talking about an incident that happened to him (not Gates.)

This story is pure opinion, pure editorial, and is horridly written at that.

What isn't pure opinion is that the 911 and police radio dispatch tapes were released today, and they don't "jive" with the police report.

It's looking more and more like Professor Gates was arrested for Contempt of Cop. He was arrested for yelling at the cop from the steps of his own home, well after he'd been identified.

In the state of Massachusetts, yelling at a cop from the steps of your own home isn't a crime, but his ass went to jail for it.

http://fennia.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/Cartman.jpg

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

What isn't pure opinion is that the 911 and police radio dispatch tapes were released today, and they don't "jive" with the police report.

It's looking more and more like Professor Gates was arrested for Contempt of Cop. He was arrested for yelling at the cop from the steps of his own home, well after he'd been identified.

In the state of Massachusetts, yelling at at cop from the steps of your own home isn't a crime, but his ass went to jail for it.

http://fennia.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/Cartman.jpg

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According to Mr Gates, I can do this with impunity because I'm white. I don't think I'll test that theory.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

In the state of Massachusetts, yelling at a cop from the steps of your own home isn't a crime, but his ass went to jail for it.

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Tip: When after breaking into your own home, a friends home, or any home, a police officer asks you to step outside - do it. Immediately. Without complaining. Explain yourself. Quietly and clearly. Tender ID when asked. Do it in a respectful manner. You'll be amazed and astounded when the situation is resolved quietly and quickly - despite your race.

No matter what you think of the police, you must understand it's a difficult job, made all the more difficult, dangerous, and confusing by idiots who view belligerence as the best choice for interaction. It's never ok to yell at, run from, fight with, or otherwise disobey the police, unless you enjoy cuffs and rough treatment. If you act like you're guilty, you probably will get treated like you're guilty.

I absolutely agree. It took me a lot of heartache to figure that out.

Personally, I don't see race as an issue. I've known a lot of cops in my life, both as a good guy and a "bad guy" and this was Contempt of Cop to me.

The evidence does indicate that the situation escalated way beyond where it should have. This sort of thing happens every day all over the world.

This is a good point to stumble in again. The professor screwed up. I screwed up. The professor made national news. I raised a few eyebrows on a somewhat obscure messageboard. I don't know if the professor will make excuses for his behavior but I won't for mine. Excuses are a way to justify one's own mistakes. That being said, I apologize to those that I may have offended, not just here, but in other threads. I mean you no ill will. For two people I won't name that are embarrassed or concerned about my state of well being; please don't worry! I ga ga got it uh uh under ca ca control! The Obama well being checks will be rolling in soon!
:beer:

But i see 3 officers. At what point in time does even a belligerent old black man, prove to be a danger to 3 armed officers. So i see it as a timeline question.

If he hadn't been identified at the time of his showing of the ass, then arrest him.

But if he had been identified as the owner of the home, then leave... and take about 45min longer to come out next time someone calls in a burglary to that home.

The problem lies in the fact that he came out of the house and was loud, belligerent, and unruly in front of a crowd of people. He is to blame for his own arrest.

Agreed, and in a perfect world he should not have been arrested for it.

However, I think cops in general have low tolerance for loud and unruly idiots, and it does not sound like Gates was behaving like the "scholar" folks say he is. Act like you belong in an episode of COPS, and you might wind up in cuffs.

I don't think his race had anything to do with him being arrested, except for the huge chip on his shoulder about the race issue that made him start screaming at a cop who was just doing his job.

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Originally Posted by Azmodious

But i see 3 officers. At what point in time does even a belligerent old black man, prove to be a danger to 3 armed officers.

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This has nothing to do with it. Gates should've shut up, offered id, and calmly explained. Come to your door yelling like an idiot, and you set yourself up to fail.

The police have a hard enough job without idiots like this raising doubt in their minds about what if any threat they face.

Gates was uppity. Not in a 50's racist way, but in an elitist academia sort of way. When someone shows their work id to a police officer, they are trying to influence, win favor, or intimidate. 'I work at Harvard' didn't impress this cop.

The cop should have just taken the verbal beating and walked away. That's not to say that the cop did anything wrong, but he fell into a trap... one set by a race-baiting, cop hating liberal elitist that was just jumping at the chance to capitalize on this incident and to further expound his racist beliefs.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Nuts

The cop should have just taken the verbal beating and walked away. That's not to say that the cop did anything wrong, but he fell into a trap... one set by a race-baiting, cop hating liberal elitist that was just jumping at the chance to capitalize on this incident and to further expound his racist beliefs.

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The cop did nothing wrong. Which is to say he shouldn't have done anything differently.

Also: Solidarity

The cop should have seen at the he was being baited. Gates was begging for escalation. Yes, he didn't do anything wrong but there was another option.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

The cop did nothing wrong. Which is to say he shouldn't have done anything differently.

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Herein I disagree.

If you don't accept my Contempt of Cop theorem, then we're done.

If you do consider it and look at the evidence, particularly the tapes, it becomes apparent that Professor Gates disrespected the cop from his own doorstep, which the cop took exception to.

End result is that Gates went to jail and the cop lied his ass off on his police report, using standard boilerplate cop CYA lingo. Trouble is, the contemptable suspect in this case is a Harvard professor.

I've been in trouble plenty of times in my life and have been acquitted of a felony that bankrupted me. It's a bitter pill to swallow to walk a free man on a bullshit charge and find yourself standing on the sidewalk in front of the courthouse penniless and bankrupt.


"Be mindful and covetous of your rights and liberty, for they are precious and you will not know what you've lost, except in wistful hindsight."
-Curtis Nelson, 8:56 PM. PST., July 28, 2009.

How's that for a quote from your token commie?

Here's my pinko comment on the whole thing.

Gates totally over reacted to being questioned, he was returning from a trip and probably sleep deprived, had just had to break into his own house (no doubt embarrassing in it's own right) and was primed to escalate a situation beyond normal. I don't think that the arrest was racially motivated. I think he was loud and embarrassed the policeman who chose not to walk away from the situation.

Having known many individuals that have a healthy skepticism of law enforcement, I can see this happening in my own family quite easily. I also know that in general you don't get arrested for yelling at a policeman. There have been many instances when just meekly doing what a police officer asks was not the course of action in my family and in general the action that was taken did not lead to arrest. No stories without buying me alcohol though!!!!!!

It's not illegal to disrespect police officers. It isn't nice but it's not illegal. It doesn't matter if there was a crowd gathering, as a peace officer your first duty is to de-escalate the situation and if removing yourself from the scene does that, then you remove yourself.

What I find politically fascinating is that this is such a big story. Heck when my mama or Clay's dad or anyone else we have known yells at the police no one writes about that. It's all a bit silly in my opinion.

So let's talk about healthcare legislation, or defense spending, or immigration or any number of real political issues rather than the inner workings of a local police department.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Beaker

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So let's talk about healthcare legislation, or defense spending, or immigration or any number of real political issues rather than the inner workings of a local police department.

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My house backs up to a city park. A city employee took a break from mowing the grass and pissed on an tree near my fence. I called him a tool of the fascist state, an eco-terrorist and plan on suing both him and the city. I'm staging a 'no pee' sit in at city hall and throwing links of chain into the grass at all city parks.

Am I over-reacting?

bork bork bork. I'm in sweden. bork bork bork

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

Herein I disagree.

If you don't accept my Contempt of Cop theorem, then we're done.

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We're done.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Nuts

The cop should have seen at the he was being baited. Gates was begging for escalation. Yes, he didn't do anything wrong but there was another option.

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I agree - I would have used a taser and baton. :uzi:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

We're done.

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Indeed, for this thread. I want to clarify that I don't mean we're done as friends or AK members or anything like that.

Although we disagree on about every political issue, there are a lot more things that we have in common. The reason I post here is because I do respect you guys, even if I do think you all are crazy at times... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

Indeed, for this thread. I want to clarify that I don't mean we're done as friends or AK members or anything like that.

Although we disagree on about every political issue, there are a lot more things that we have in common. The reason I post here is because I do respect you guys, even if I do think you all are crazy at times... :rolleyes:

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Maybe it's time for a "beer summit."

Hopefully Obama will do Jägerbombs with Shimon Peres and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Because, hell... can't we all just get along?

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

Maybe it's time for a "beer summit."

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Fark that.

As your token commie, I'd have to insist on a vodka summit.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/understocked.png