Global warming hoax revealed?

[[AK]Bribo]

Russians now claiming more of the climate data was manipulated.

[[AK]Palooka]

Looks like the Copenhagen commie summit is having a predictable outcome: it's a joke.

[[AK]Bribo]

Looks like the Copenhagen commie summit is having a predictable outcome: it's a joke.

This isn't helping. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a5wStc0K6jhY

[[AK]Nuts]

I've been trying to read more and educate myself a bit and too be honest a lot of the anti-anthrogenic global warming messages are just false and are just as 'fear mongering' as the pro-AGW arguements.

There is clearly an impact on the earth due to man. It's undeniable.

Is the earth going to cease supporting life because of AGW? No.

Should we aim to reduce or impact on the environment? Yes.

Should we do so even though it means hurting developing nations and crippling the economies of the West? No.

Are scientist likely to misrepresent the facts (not really lie, just present facts in a specific, limited manner) because of funding, political pressure, peer influence, etc? Yes.

Do politicians take advantage of fear to manipulate the science and control the public? Yes.

Does the the media have a vested interest in propagating fear as it usually results in increased ad revenue? Yes.
(ed. case in point: NBC is owned by GE. GE makes wind turbine engines. If the government passes laws requiring increased wind power generation GE wins huge contracts; hence, NBC will promote fear to further the bottom line of their parent company)

Do anti-AGW messages do just as much damage as pro-AGW message? Almost.

Are all facts presented to the public No.

Would the public even be able to comprehend the complex science behind global climate data modeling? Hell No.

Do most scientists even get it? No.

Do I think that AGW is occuring? Yes, to a limited degree you can't deny some climate events are changing but I think that science fails to account for all of the variables; so the impact by man is probably small to insignificant but we should still strive to reduce our roll.

This is a big change for me. I was very anti-AGW but once you get past the Goracle and all the fear mongering, you can find some true science out there. And the anti-AGW is just as bad; ignoring some facts while pushing others.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ this really debunked a lot of 'truth's' i had and made me read more about what I thought was true.

Either way, both side are now suspicious in my book. They both have an agenda. However, only the pro-AGW theorists are trying to tax my family to death, ruin our economy, and control every aspect of my life. So screw them.

[[AK]Hylander]

There's a huge valley between man's "impact" on the environment in terms of pollution, destroying the rain forrest, water pollution, etc and the "Man made" climate change bogie man.

I think almost everyone agrees we want cleaner air, water, etc. But this can be achieved through reasonable policy and initiatives that aren't entrenched in anti-capitalistic policy and socialist tendencies.

[[AK]Bribo]

There's a huge valley between man's "impact" on the environment in terms of pollution, destroying the rain forrest, water pollution, etc and the "Man made" climate change bogie man.

I think almost everyone agrees we want cleaner air, water, etc. But this can be achieved through reasonable policy and initiatives that aren't entrenched in anti-capitalistic policy and socialist tendencies.

Agree. I think tax incentives would be a great way to encourage green investments by private industry.

[[AK]Nuts]

Personally I think the easiest thing to do is improve our nation's power grid to use energy wiser. Then limit lawsuits on green energy projects to stop the environmentalists from limiting our growth. (Do you know that they are suing to close down some of the biggest wind-turbine farms in the country and are trying to block off shore tidal plants?). Using energy wiser and fast-track greener projects would help.

[[AK]Palooka]

http://bit.ly/4C2aDv

[[AK]Swae]

Personally I think the easiest thing to do is improve our nation's power grid to use energy wiser. Then limit lawsuits on green energy projects to stop the environmentalists from limiting our growth. (Do you know that they are suing to close down some of the biggest wind-turbine farms in the country and are trying to block off shore tidal plants?). Using energy wiser and fast-track greener projects would help.

The case that I think you are referring to in regards to the wind farms involves a project in West Virginia. The ruling came down on December 9th, and the judge's ruling has brought the project to a halt. While I am not a staunch environmentalist, I do feel that in this situation, the group filing the complaint had a warranted concern. Namely, that the consultant and Beech Ridge Energy chose to try to skate by concerns over an endangered species of bat. The Endangered Species Act (ESA) is a law, and you can't just overlook it because it might cause problems with your business. Apparently USFWS gave recommendations regarding mitigation measures to prevent harming the bat, and they were ignored.

In my dealings with the environment-protecting agencies (EPA, USFWS, etc.), I have found that they will go out of their way to work with projects that have potentially negative environmental impacts. You want to build a pipeline through the middle of a high-quality cypress wetland? Ok, that's fine, just purchase mitigation bank credits which will protect another wetland from being torn up. You want to construct through a river which contains an endangered fish species? Ok, you just won't be allowed to construct during the spawning season of said fish. It's all about compromise - allowing companies to build projects in a way that lets them profit and also adheres to the law. The problem comes when you have companies, like Beech Ridge Energy, that don't want to spend the extra money or be inconvenienced to adhere to the laws that protect our environment.

From the documents I have seen regarding this case, I say kudos to the group for bringing up the complaint, and kudos to the judge for upholding the law. I am all for the development of energy sources, be they "green" or not, as long as they follow the rules.

[[AK]Nuts]

(Actually the Altamont Wind Farm)

And talk about bad reporting:

Popular Mechanics:
More than 4700 birds are killed here each year, including 1300 raptors

WindAction.org
the roughly 1,700 to 4,700 bird deaths at Altamont Pass each year

ABC:
killing I'd say anywhere from 10,000 to 15,000 thousand birds per year

USAToday:
the estimated 10,000 birds (nearly all protected by the migratory bird law) that are being killed every year at Altamont

awea.org
Even the relatively high incidence of bird kills at Altamont Pass (about 92 per year)

windwatch.org
The total number of birds killed each year may now top 5,000.


all of this fear mongering no one puts it in perspective:

In the United States, cars and trucks wipe out millions of birds each year, while 100 million to 1 billion birds collide with windows. According to the 2001 National Wind Coordinating Committee study, “Avian Collisions with Wind Turbines: A Summary of Existing Studies and Comparisons to Other Sources of Avian Collision Mortality in the United States," these non-wind mortalities compare with 2.19 bird deaths per turbine per year. That's a long way from the sum mortality caused by the other sources

Newspapers profit off this with headlines about "massacre" and "slaughter". Lawyers for environmentalists reap millions in lawsuits. What a scam.

[[AK]Swae]

I agree that most studies I have seen show that bird mortality rates due to windfarms are usually not statistically significant.

There is currently concern over bats - not only at the farm I mentioned previously, but at many facilities around the country. Seems the bats are actually attracted to the wind farms for some reason, and when they get close, their lungs explode. So the problem becomes simply to figure out why the bats are drawn to the area and try to prevent it.

[[AK]Nuts]

and when they get close, their lungs explode.

That is awesome. Just awesome!

[[AK]Mydrial]

and when they get close, their lungs explode.

How the hell does that happen? Thats just phenomenal....LOL...I HATE BATS!!!

[[AK]Hylander]

Seems the bats are actually attracted to the wind farms for some reason, and when they get close, their lungs explode. So the problem becomes simply to figure out why the bats are drawn to the area and try to prevent it.

This could be useful if you could figure out a way to convert it to attract Politicians with the same result....

[[AK]Bribo]

How the hell does that happen? Thats just phenomenal....LOL...I HATE BATS!!!

I love bats. What do you think eats up all those summer bugs?