New toys ...

[[AK]Sonic Boom]

Hmm, definitely a can of worms. I'm going to bow out of this discussion at this point now.

One thing to consider, though. I knew someone was going to make a comparison to nuclear weapons and it's relevance to our second amendment regarding what our founding fathers originally intended.

Regarding our first amendment, our founding fathers didn't envison the television, radio, or the Internet. Perhaps they shouldn't be protected, either.

I wish I had an answer, but I don't. I also suspect that this is a main reason the Supreme Court hasn't heard any case representing a direct challenge to the second amendment since the late 1930's.

I'm done with this thread now. Let's go shoot some bad guys in 1942.

[[AK]Abaddon]

Amen. The same statements could be made about cars, or matches, or a can of gasoline ... or about any number of other devices which imbue their owners with great responsibility. Taking the discussion nuclear is just hyperbole.

For a look at justification for personal right to bear arms, check out the historical references at this site. They say it better than I can.

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html

And yes, it is a sticky constitutional issue. I don't think the Supreme Court has touched a 2nd Amendment case since 1933 (I think), when it ruled an individual did not have a constitutional right to own a sawed off shotgun, because it was not a weapon used by or practical for the military. That one ruling is the cornerstone of all future gun control efforts.


And I am bowing out too ... I respectfully agree to disagree.

[[AK]Devil_Dog]

I truly enjoy debating The Constitution of The Untied States, especially with intelligent men like yourselves. It means a great deal to me to know all of your opinions, no matter if I agree or disagree. That my fellow Americans is what the Constitution is all about and why I served my country. If people did not debate it then it would mean we don't care about it. But, we do which is healthy for us and our Nation.

I decided to do my history about the constitution by not studying the constitution so much as the men who signed it.
If you want to know what the Constitution is all about study the men who wrote it. This is where your answers are hidden.

The primary author of the Constitution James Madison was extremely adamant about the right of the private citizen to bear arms.

Madison was just as adamant about the fact that the document was not written by a single brain but, by the men that debated it as well.

These great men who wrote it were light years ahead of us. No matter if they thought of TV, radio, or nuclear weapons they were well educated and deep thinkers with a true belief in God. Yes, that's right sports fans the "G" word. Which is why it cracks me up when Atheists pretend to understand the Constituion. How can you understand it unless you understand the men that wrote it.
How can you undertsand these men if you don't have some belief in God?

[Garrett]

Personally, I prefer my Katana to any gun I've ever fired.
A blade is the best thing to match an intruder with.
I live in Canada. so our gun laws are getting even more strict, i had my FAC up until a year and a half ago, when I sold all my firearms and used the money to funy my sword collection.
Most of them are just decorative. but I have two that are battle ready.
Unfortunately in Canada, I can't kill an intruder, I have to use equal force. So I figure if someone gets in my house, theyll have to have a knife of some sort anyhow at least.
To that end, its far more tactical. if you dont know well the house you are in, how can you expect to use a firearm properly?And what thug knows how to use a firearm properly? One out of thousands is my guess. and thats giving them some credit.
Lastly though, Nothing says justice like a sword.

As for your Understanding the men that wrote the constitution DD, One does not have to believe that there is a God, to understand the things He stands for.
I don't deny that those men were vastly insightfull. nor do I have anything for, or against your constitution.
It's just a bit too easy to call other people ignoranrt.

[Slaughter]

Totally agree on the Katana thing, I've been wanting one for a couple years now.. I think my first one will either be blade(edge, which ever.. I just got up.) of the daywalker to the katana 300.. both cool looking blades.

[[AK]Devil_Dog]

Good point Garrett....
I would turn your attention to another piece of history...
If Benedict Arnold had been allowed he could have won Quebec and it would be part of the Constitution right now.....

Hmmmmm.....
That law you guys have seems kind of strange of equal force and all that. In fact that one scares me a bit.....

Hate to take my chances with anyone on an equal playing ground.....

[Garrett]

Oh Slaughter! if your thinking about the United Cutlery's Samurai 3000 katana. then I would have to say go for it. I bought it, and I've never been more satisfied in my life. I can stare at that thing for hours, its quite the piece of work.

As for Quebec DD, take it, in fact, I'll hand it over. Less seperatist frenchies for us to deal with. never seen a more ungrateful bunch in my life. And their all insane drivers.
I don't hate them, I'm just a little pissed at their attitudes.
And of course, their not all like that, just the 40 some odd percent that voted yes in that referrendum (hell if I can spell that at 1:00 AM).

The equal force thing actually appeals to me, though I live a quiet life in a...slightly less than quiet town, in a quiet neighbourhood.
I've dealt with, in my Highschool years, the kids who will grow up to be thieves, and robbers. and I'm waiting (which is rather scary a thought) for one of them to come along so I can skillfully apply that rule to them. Win or loose I would still consider myself the better. You cant defend something and be wrong, especially when it's your home.

[Moon]

You've done it now! You've gone and pissed me off!

First of all I'm not gonna write a book or cover the finer points of the constitution or discuss what you socialistic revisionists are trying to do to my country. All I'm going to tell you is what I'm going to do. Here is a quotation made be a number of outstanding citizens and one that I live by:

. . . FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS . . .

More quotes:

If there is anything which it is the duty of the whole people to never entrust to any hands but their own – that thing is the preservation of their own liberties and institutions.

~Abraham Lincoln~

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

~U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis (1856-1941)~

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

~John F. Kennedy~

To edit and add:

I don't see anywhere where the Consititution says that high school students can gun down other students with legally obtained firearms, but I guess they're protected by the Constitution somewhere.

And yet another fine but predictable example of leftwing spin!

A parting shot for you blade boys: "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!" Didn't you ever watch Indiana Jones???

[Slaughter]

Yes, Samurai 3000 Katana is the one, I just messed up and didn't look over it.

I could look at that Katana all the time.. Been eyeing it on ebay for a few months now.. maybe once I get some money I can have one for a decent price.

[[AK]Abaddon]

Moon! Good to see you.

[[AK]Devil_Dog]

Well, if I ever need to get Moon's attention for something I know how to get it!!! hehe

Rarely see you outside the Everquest posts Moon....
Don't you think it's about time for you to come out of retirement and slap on that AK symbol????


I enjoy fellow American's passion for the Constitution....

[Hale]

I like how I'm branded a socialist, left winger or told to go to North Korea or some similar nonsense whenever I disagree with certain people here. Are you that insecure that anyone with a different opinion is dismissed out of hand?

I also find it ironic that the same people who only want to hear people with their exact same point of view are the same ones wrapping themselves in the Constitution. If nothing else, that document should stand freedom of thought, opinion, and expression. Last time I checked, I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm sure I could dredge up a bunch of quotes for people who thought the same way if I wanted to, but its not worth it.

My only point is I don't think people should carry devices who's only purpose is to kill other people. In my mind, that doesn't interfere with anyones freedoms. That's the end of my participation in this discussion.

[Garrett]

The other point about guns Hale is that in the right hands, it’s a defensive tool.
Now by in the right hands I mean someone intelligence, and training. I don’t agree, or disagree with the gun laws, and regulations of any state, province, or country.
But in more areas than a few, it's not nearly enough to have locks on your doors and a home security system.

Again my katana comes up, because of course, in anyone’s house their are thousands of places to hide in wait for an ambush. And it’s less than equal force.

Where the will to steal, and hurt exists, people will need to feel safe. Guns make some people feel safe, and make others feel powerful. It’s a double edged sword like almost everything else you can think up.

I don’t recall anyone calling you a socialist, or telling you to go anywhere else. Either notion is ridiculous. Socialism in and of itself produced more guns in the hands of the public than anything else. And I'm not talking about handguns. We’re talking assault rifles.

[[AK]Abaddon]

Also ... this post was not intended as a political discussion, and I was not trolling for opposing points of view when I posted my first message. I was just talking about my new purchases, much the same as I have seen postings about widescreen TVs and other topics. I had no intention of making it a heated discussion ... and I didn't post the first incendiary comment.

[Garrett]

Yeah, we realise that abaddon. I've read this several times and i dont think it's heated at all. Maybe some over zealous people. but you cant take that to heart.

Anyhow, though, back to the original topic.
What make is your fiance's .357?
I have a slight interest in guns. But it only stemmed as far as the guns I used to shoot. I've always wanted to fire a Desert Eagle .50 and .357. their just sleek, big cannons. Somethin about shiny steel draws me in
I kinda wish they wernt illegal in Canada...ah well.
Otherwise I've been a rifle guy for my shooting years. I kinda miss it. But I dont miss Spending the upkeep costs, not to mention ammo costs.

But I do miss the training. I wish someone around here would start a Mideval combat training...I dunno...Club for lack of a better term. I'd be all over that. despite my build :P

Out!


[Edit] Ops almost forgot about Moon. Pick a house, me and my blade will gladly show you the folly of guns in houses, And guns in close quarters.