My questions about Islam.

[[AK]Choozoo]

Our two party system is so inept now that they function at 1/4 capacity. We need the American Party. The one with the citizens of America set first. Not big business (we don't have any Fortune 500 CEOs in here do we?), and not in a Welfare state funded and derived by Social Munchausen Disorder.

A party that puts the average American first, not the richest 20% or the poorest 20%, you know, that little segment of 60% that I like to call you and me. Yeah, wouldn't that be grand?

The American Party isn't politically correct, it's harsh and efficient.
A member of the American Party:
--believes in free speech, and the Constitution of the United States of America.

--believes that our enemies should be eliminated with extreme prejudice, and without afterthought. IMO, we set back the WoT the instant we renamed Operation Infinite Justice. (We renamed to appease Muslims, because only Allah can deliver Infinite Justice). Well guess what, the American Party has something for you, and you'll be begging for Allah! Now STFU! 1 Can of whoop ass, coming right up.

--believes that there is no racism, nor discrimination. It's high time we set all prejudices aside except for one. How good of an American are you? An American Party Member doesn't care about anything else you may be. Are you an American? Or are you the enemy? Sorry, there is no in between. Now go to your homeland or go to work. I'm tired of paying taxes to support families with no job skills and 25 kids. People who work on a subsistence basis and abuse my border worse than a hooker on bachelor night. I work, I work hard. How much was the welfare budget last year? How much for social programs that never work? You want better kids? Get involved with them. you should be every bit as angry to see a rather large percentage of your wage go to someone who can have kids to make money.

--The American Party won't get involved with world conflicts that it would have to ask other nations' assistance. Be your own army, don't rely on others, they won't always be there, and they can't always be trusted. but we are spread too thin???? Yup, close our bases worldwide. They don't want us there anyway. But oh, if I need to use that base again, I'll be back without warning, so don't move in.

--The American party WILL NOT be the world police force. You got problems? Yes, that's right. The key word in that sentance was You.
But we'll loose influence in the world??? We can't do that!. Ummm, yeah, I see a lot of other leaders out there ready to take over. We'll be the cool kid in the cafeteria. Great to hang out with, but don't pi$$ him off, he'll kick you're a$$ bad.

--The American Party will not associate with lobbyists, but listen to it's constituency to create policy and legislation. We'll have a true Representative Democracy once again.

--the American Party is secular, the seperation of church and state was stated by our forefathers for a reason. We don't want a theocratic state, it's not free. Remember, the Taliban had a theocracy in Afghanistan...

--the American Party will mobilize and train all citizens to prepare for war.
"In times of peace, you prepare for war. -- George Washington

--the American Party believes in prisons. Really dark, smelly, nasty ones. the author of the quote escapes me, but "Justice should be sure, swift and severe." In other words, scare the living crap out of everyone who makes a subsistence from the misery of others.

--that's just the beginning. Anyone want an American Party membership?

<---- Confuses easily.

[Slaughter]

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo

My prediction, another large attack will occur in late October (that's right, just before the election. Spain taught them a lesson.), and will be carried out by different extremists.

Why do it in late October when you can do it on Election day?.. Seems to me that everyone would be focused on the polls then, not what could be about to happen..

[[AK]Squidly]

Chooz - couple of problems with your party. Big corporations are also the biggest taxpayers and employers. If you want to improve things for average Americans, you need to necessarily improve them for big business.

Regarding "international police force"...a lot of what goes on in the world directly effects average Americans - in the pocketbook and elsewhere. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world without it biting us in the ass.

Being the biggest and best also brings with it responsibility. Fortunately for the world we're a nation of courage that's not adverse to risk. There are exceptions of course, and most of them march to the banner with the donkey on it.

[[AK]Choozoo]

Noone is perfect. but my party is my party. And for now, I'm the only one in it. lol

[[AK]Squidly]

It's my party and I'll cry if I want to.

It'd be a cool party for a country that existed on a small island...like iceland.

Lots of blond chix in white fur hats and fuzzy mittens!

[[AK]Choozoo]

I knew squidly couldn't resist a healthy debate.

Big corporations are also the biggest taxpayers and employers. If you want to improve things for average Americans, you need to necessarily improve them for big business.

Are we the United Corporations of America? or The United States of America. They can and should do their tax responsibility. But shipping jobs to India to increase profits may be good for business, but bad for America.
I'm not against big business, but what exactly have they done for me us? I believe the leader of your party is granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. Wonder who would benefit from that... My party is for the people, not the X Inc. Make all the money you want as a business, just do it fairly, and sacrifice a dollar for that country you call home. Think twice before moving operations overseas.

Regarding "international police force"...a lot of what goes on in the world directly effects average Americans - in the pocketbook and elsewhere. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world without it biting us in the ass.

Examples please.

Being the biggest and best also brings with it responsibility. Fortunately for the world we're a nation of courage that's not adverse to risk.

I agree, my point was that the risk to be taken should be on the nation/groups that want to mess with us. Hit them where it hurts. Make them fear the retaliation. It's like prison, if you were scared to death to go there, you wouldn't commit the crime. Weird analogy, but it fits. Make our enemies fear us so greatly that they wouldn't dare touch us, the consequences would be too severe. Throw away the Geneva Convention, aren't rules of war an oxymoron anyway?

PS-
I've been to Iceland, I don't want to go back.

[[AK]Squidly]

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo

Are we the United Corporations of America? or The United States of America. They can and should do their tax responsibility. But shipping jobs to India to increase profits may be good for business, but bad for America.

It cuts both ways. Foreign car companies have manufacturing facilities in the US. Should we eschew "insourcing"? What if they pull out as a penalty for our fiscal protectionism?

We don't operate in a vacuum. It's often painful, but economies evolve. 50 years ago we were far more ma-and-pa agricultural than we are now. Our economy and labor force evolves. Shifting employment for certain jobs overseas hurts some people in the short term. Placing artificial regulations on the marketplace will hurt more people over the long term.

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo
I'm not against big business, but what exactly have they done for me us?

I work for a Fortune 200 company, and have for the last 10 years. There are millions like me, and our tax dollars carry the water for much of the US.

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo
I believe the leader of your party is granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. Wonder who would benefit from that...

It's a sticky topic, with uncomfortable conclusions either way you slice it.
Crack down on illegals, and you seriously throttle our industry. Think larger agro-corps can afford to pay $12 an hour to some Union guy picking spinach? Think again.

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo
Examples please. (In response to my saying "We cannot isolate ourselves from the world without it biting us in the ass."

A smart ass might respond: "WWII Europe." A more recent illustration would be Iraq of the early 90's. An isolationist would've allowed Saddam to keep Kuwait. Emboldened, he'd have likely rolled into Saudi Arabia. Once in control of something like half the world's oil supplies, the economic impact for us would be stark. Can you say $5 per gallon at the pump? It's not a lark.

This is to say nothing about the logical next steps - Iraq as a nuclear power, in position to take out Israel.

Then there's the issue of Islamic terror. They attack us because they hate what we stand for. They hate the fact that our women wear belly shirts and we lay around drinking beer and watching football. They hate that Bay Watch is one of the most popular shows on Arab television. The bombs would be coming our way no matter how much we might like to bury our heads in the sand.

[[AK]Hylander]

Choozoo,

It's the United States of America and companies are free to pursue any activity that lowers costs and improves profits. I know I would if I was CEO and it made a difference in the bottom line. Business in competitive and you need every advantage you can get. That is their responsibility to their shareholders. If the quality of the work is sub-standard, or their customers are not happey with it - they will know and make changes as Dell did with all the complaints about not being able to understand the tech support in India.

Outsourcing and Growth

[[AK]Choozoo]

It cuts both ways. Foreign car companies have manufacturing facilities in the US. Should we eschew "insourcing"? What if they pull out as a penalty for our fiscal protectionism?

We don't operate in a vacuum. It's often painful, but economies evolve. 50 years ago we were far more ma-and-pa agricultural than we are now. Our economy and labor force evolves. Shifting employment for certain jobs overseas hurts some people in the short term. Placing artificial regulations on the marketplace will hurt more people over the long term.

Yes, it's true, but severly unbalanced out of our favor. And the rate of job shifting has increased. Go through your house, look at the electronics, your childrens toys (large and small), even your furniture, and I bet you can count on one hand the "made in America" logo. How is that good? Your hard earned money off to a large communist nation. Hey, maybe we even helped them into orbit... Wonder if they can use their space technology to perfect ICBMs....

I work for a Fortune 200 company, and have for the last 10 years. There are millions like me, and our tax dollars carry the water for much of the US.

correct. but i asked what have they done for us? me? (well, they do keep my teeth clean and my breath fresh...) they offer you a paycheck, a place to work, and some vacation. Probably some kick a$$ benefits too, but the real issue is in the reality that if they find a company in India that will do your job for 1/10th of your salary, how loyal would they be? "I know you've been here 10 years, but we're saving $10 Million a year. I want American companies to favor Americans. Our country and our people, not just their shareholders and profit margins. I know that that isn't the way Corporations work, well, it's a new world out there. Protect your own.

It's a sticky topic, with uncomfortable conclusions either way you slice it.
Crack down on illegals, and you seriously throttle our industry. Think larger agro-corps can afford to pay $12 an hour to some Union guy picking spinach? Think again.

You better believe it is. I bet if you cut welfare you'd find plenty of people out there who would be willing to pick onions. the labor market would be so saturated that you could hire for $6/hr, the Unions be damned and their nasty Union mentality. But the point is, how can you stand for such action(the illegals amnesty)? Why not dissolve the Customs and the Border Patrol? My party advocates "shoot-to-kill" policy against any invader on American soil. And that is what they are, invaders. Tough times require tough policy. Political Correctness will kill us all.

A smart ass might respond: "WWII Europe." A more recent illustration would be Iraq of the early 90's. An isolationist would've allowed Saddam to keep Kuwait. Emboldened, he'd have likely rolled into Saudi Arabia. Once in control of something like half the world's oil supplies, the economic impact for us would be stark. Can you say $5 per gallon at the pump? It's not a lark.

This is to say nothing about the logical next steps - Iraq as a nuclear power, in position to take out Israel.

Then there's the issue of Islamic terror. They attack us because they hate what we stand for. They hate the fact that our women wear belly shirts and we lay around drinking beer and watching football. They hate that Bay Watch is one of the most popular shows on Arab television. The bombs would be coming our way no matter how much we might like to bury our heads in the sand.

Couple scenarios here.
Green answer -- Fossil Fuels are a finite resource. We all know that, what we don't know is how long until it's gone. Why wait when you can innovate?

The American Party Foreign Policy would be the sleeping bear approach. I'm fine until you F with me, then watch it, I'm coming out swinging. Fear me

Kuwait in '90 asked the UN (which is a polite way of asking the US) for assistance. We obliged, we did our job. We kept the world oil prices down. Good for us. Do you know why other nations could give 2 craps about the Middle East? They don't use as much damn oil. We acted mainly because of our dependence on oil, don't believe the "we Believe in Freedom for all nations" stuff. If so, we'd be knee deep in Africa settling all sorts of diputes, and impacts on freedom for their citizens. I wonder why we don't?

Terrorism. Well, that is a zero tolerance approach from the American Party. you do a suicide bombing in my country, I destroy your holiest landmark. Terrorism has no nation, no state, what it does have as one common bond is religion. but that will alienate the entire Muslim World! Yes, and there are lining up to help us out. Face it, they are already alienated. Our politically correct foreign policy isn't working. we should be peaceful. when the time comes to fight, you fight with such voraciousness that the entire world would fear an entanglement with the "Sleeping Bear". Go ahead, poke him with a stick

[[AK]Choozoo]

@ Hylander:

I understand the laissez-faire economic model.

I asked the question because I feel that the Corporations of America bear way to much influence on the political landscape. The government is for the people. If you want the government out of business affairs, I want business out of governmental ones. Do you agree or disagree?

I think that it is time to for Corporations to put Americans ahead in the priority list. It's a symbiotic realtionship that is turning parasitic in favor of the corporation. I believe they have a responsibilty to try and help their countryman. I'm not saying to do so and go bankrupt or operate at a loss, but to think twice before closing the factory in some god forsaken town in Middle America.

I think you can call me Nationalistic. I put America first, I love her, and make her my first priority. I'm tired of being treated with out respect because I am an American. Our fellow Americans are all we have left. Keep it in the family. So when I see factory closures, overseas movement of jobs, I get angry.

Do you understand? Am I the only one who feels this way? Or am I an extremeist in nationalistic policies?


Remember -- This is a fun, healthy debate.

[[AK]Squidly]

I understand, I just think that protectionism is counterproductive to our *very successful* system. I think our economy and society has progressed beyond the mile long assembly lines of people painting eyebrows on barbie dolls. Leave that to the third world nations. Each evolutionary cycle is painful to somebody. This time it's touching on IT support and low level programming. Those people will adapt and find jobs elsewhere in the industry. Perhaps the next programmer to lose his/her job will go become a jet engine mechanic.

Regarding corporations - the best way to "protect your own" is to grow, excel, and advance. Your low level jobs may be outsourced, but more high level jobs will fill the gap. They always do. The tide of our economy rises, raising all our little economic boats with it. Lets not go installing artifical drains sucking everyone down to the same low level. On this road lies the failed hulk of economic socialism.

Regarding oil/alternate fuels - by all means pump up the financing for research into a replacement. In the meantime we have obligations - to ourselves and the world - to deal with situations like Iraq with our head up and eyes open. Lest you fear that we are becoming the world's policemen, let Rwanda serve as a reminder of our disinterest for tragedy occuring in the worlds irrelevant corners.

[[AK]Choozoo]

I think my point about corporations drifted, and I let it. My problem with corporations is their ability to influence public policy by several means. That was my true gripe. I'm not a socialist, and not saying you called me one. I just feel that laissez-faire is a 2 way street. The government is of the people, by the people, for the people. The abbreviation "Inc." can not be found in the Constitution.

My problem with outsourcing is that makes us reliant upon others. That is dangerous now. Trust no one.

Rwanda, my point exactly. And the Congo, and some South American Countries...... Our selectiveness is selfish and trite. Do all or do nothing, don't just do the convenient. (I prefer nothing)

[[AK]Squidly]

I think outsourcing needs to be regulated (precisely for the security reasons you bring up) but not done away with. I believe we mustn't fight modernization and economic evolution.

Obviously this is all "utopia-speak". I have every confidence that we're going to screw this up and some twinkie in an Indian programming pools is going to maliciously hose some vital piece of software someday. Think "Office Space" and filtering those rounded pennies.

Regarding international policing - I don't view our military actions as police actions. I view them as self defense issues.

Even (or especially) the recontruction phase of our occupation. A democratic Iraq is positively in our best interests from a national security perspective.

I sense this conversation is winding down, so I now provide the obligatory Icelandic Snow Bunny.

[[AK]Hylander]

Originally posted by [AK]Choozoo
@ Hylander:

I understand the laissez-faire economic model.

I asked the question because I feel that the Corporations of America bear way to much influence on the political landscape. The government is for the people. If you want the government out of business affairs, I want business out of governmental ones. Do you agree or disagree?

I disagree to an extent because are corporations and small businesses alike not run by "the people"? Do they not have the right to 'influence' their representatives to represent them in Washington as well?

Now, do I think that campaign finance contributions are a disaster? ABSOLUTELY. The way money is funneled, etc is a complete farce.


I think that it is time to for Corporations to put Americans ahead in the priority list.

I disagree... that's "French". There is a reason this country is an economic powerhouse and kicks @ss in terms of productivity, efficiency, and profitability. It's because our business does not put socialistic policy befor eeconomic.


It's a symbiotic realtionship that is turning parasitic in favor of the corporation. I believe they have a responsibilty to try and help their countryman. I'm not saying to do so and go bankrupt or operate at a loss, but to think twice before closing the factory in some god forsaken town in Middle America.

Again, I totally disagree. Economics are and should be the primary motivation for business activity. I do believe there are ethics and morality issues of course. Such as following the laws on the environment, workers safety, accounting practices, etc. But I do not believe companies have a moral obligation to employ the greatest number of Americans as they can. That is not capitalism nor the free market.

I think you can call me Nationalistic. I put America first, I love her, and make her my first priority. I'm tired of being treated with out respect because I am an American. Our fellow Americans are all we have left. Keep it in the family. So when I see factory closures, overseas movement of jobs, I get angry.

I'm with you on the America part, but I'm extremely free global market and believe in the concept of comparative advantage. America no longer has a comparative advantage in manufacturing for example.


Do you understand? Am I the only one who feels this way? Or am I an extremeist in nationalistic policies?

I understand and don't think you are extremist. I just disagree on the basis of my economic beliefs.


Remember -- This is a fun, healthy debate.

Absolutely.

[[AK]Choozoo]

In iceland, it was a hard fight to find an Ugly woman. I saw 1.

Total scandanavian sterotype, great place to find a wife I'd bet.